What's wrong with just wanting to raid?

"Regarding the alt unfriendliness of MoP. You created a huge requirement sink and refuse to address the elephant in the room"
"If an alt gets every accomplishment your main has then you have few reasons to play that alt. There has to be a better design."
"I disagree Greg. I play dif chars because I want to play a dif class, not to get some achieves. Make them all .net bound."
"But what are you going to do on that character if it has everything the main does. Just raid?"

I wonder what is wrong with just raiding. 

If I had it my way I would raid a whole lot more than I do now. I happen to find it the most fun and challenging aspect of the game. Granted, I wouldn't have time to raid every day, and most of the days I do log on to do one or the other in the game, but if I could choose I would love to have an insta raid ready for me the moment I log on and feel like playing for a few hours. (not an LFR, I love raiding, but LFR is not raiding for me).

I prefer to think of my alts as holding wintersleep

Also, I wonder what else they want to see as final goal in the game. Dailies? Dailies to me have always been a means to an end. And some people may enjoy them. Some people may even enjoy them so much that they  don't feel a need to do anything else after the dailies, but to me that has never been a goal on its own.

PVP? Sure, pvp is an end goal in the game. But then the argument that is being made here, completely invalid as well. "But what are you going to do on that character if it has everything the main does?" More PVP?

Do they really believe that people have alts to do the achievements again? I would bet that this is about the smallest part of the wow population you can imagine that actually does this. People have alts to have a change of scenery, to learn from a different perspective in the game, to experience a different playstyle. Some may have a specific alt jus tot PVP since they don't enjoy their main in PVP. Others may just really like questing. One of the main reasons is probably professions. But least likely it seems to me that people have alts to do the same dailies and achievements all over again.

Achievements on many alts is not a goal, and while I believe that the road to the end goal in the game has to be interesting, sometimes challenging, and always rewarding, I do not believe that it would hurt gameplay one bit if alts would have more things account wide.

Also, I think the forum poster here expressed himself badly. Alt unfriendliness in MoP is something that seems to be experienced by a lot of people. Myself included. I used to love playing alts, experiencing different classes, and different viewpoints. I had 7 characters at 85 and I with that I was definitely not special.

But now...now I have 1 character at 90. Exactly 1. My hunter is halfway through 89, so closing in on 90, but that took me remarkably longer than it has ever taken me before in previous expansions.

Why then are alts so unattractive at the moment?

I play on average about 18 to 20 hours per week. And I think this is quite a lot already. This includes 8 to 9 hours of raiding, and 2,5 hours of achievement/challenge runs on my Sunday evening. But what do I do in the rest of the time then? I still have about 7 hours of not raiding or achievements...well, I prepare as much as I can for raid.

And when I say as much as I can, I mean as much as I can without burning out on the game entirely. You see I don't like doing dailies. But to get my lesser charms I have to do them. So last weekend I spent about 3 hours just on doing dailies and getting my lesser charms so that Tuesday I can get my elder charms.

Other than this I want to not be broken on my characters. I hate standing at the AH and not be able to get my gear enchanted or gemmed. I have guildies and raid members who help with this of course, but sometimes I'm simply impatient and I just want that enchant/gem now. So I spend time on working the glyph and darkmoon card market. This takes about 20 minutes per day and keeps my wallet nicely filled enough to do what I want to do without going bankrupt.

Then of course I have some things in the game that I would like to do, which makes up for the last 3 hours of playtime. I go looking for pets, or transmog gear, or I do my farm, etc.

So reason number 1 why alts don't get pulled out of the stables? Time. They have created so many time sinks that are semi-required for the main that I just don't have a lot of time left to play an alt.

Next to this I still needed a lot of items on my main. Items that seem to all be soulbound, bind on pickup. So reason number 2, I cannot get what I need on my main by playing an alt. And I'm not talking about BoP gear, I am talking about spirits of harmony for example. Which I need to get my lotuses for flasks. I am talking about reputation, which I need for gear. Valor points and justice points, which I need to upgrade my gear.

Reason number 3, is that those reputation grinds are each looking like mount everest to me (and to a lot of others if I follow the forums a little). I haven't even been able to finish the rep grinds on my main. And time that I spent on my alts is taking away time from my main, who I feel already doesn't do everything I could do to be in the best shape possible for raid. I regularly don't do LFR. Last week I did only terrace. I don't max out my valor points every week. I haven't grinded all the reps to get the gear. Etc.

Every time I feel like playing an alt, I am thinking, "But I should really be doing this or that on my main" followed immediately after by, "But I really don't feel like that, blergh" and then quite often ends with "Hey Thror, feel like watching a film?"

Simply because it is all too much. What needs to be done is so huge still, that I cannot oversee what all needs to be done, which leads me to just not doing anything.

Lastly, reason number 4, As if it wasn't enough the first time I need to do all of it again on my alt. Once I finally have stuff on my main, I have to do the same grind (less heavy due to new rep tokens) again on my alts. To get to the better profession recipes I have to grind several alts to revered with shadopan for example. Tailoring and enchanting being two examples.

It feels like a task on my main, but it discourages me completely on an alt. So my hunter is hanging around at 89 and a half, because levelling her to 90 means that I have to start the rep grind.

Somehow I think Blizzard has shot themselves in the foot a little with this, and I think I'll leave my hunter where she is and level the warlock to 89 and a half next. At least at that level there's no pressure of rep grinds if I don't reach level 90.

But hey, this is just my take on this. Opinions may vary.

Dailies, dailies, and LFR loot system

I've been following the blue posts a little and the hottest 2 items currently being discussed are the dailies, and the loot in LFR. Let me start by weighing in on the whole daily discussion.

Dailies 

Complainer's POV:
Everything is locked behind dailies. 
If we want to progress in the game we are forced to do dailies. 
Dailies ruined my game, I quit. 

Blizz's POV:
But you don't have to do dailies, go do dungeons and scenarios
You do not need your dailies or your reps to progress in the game. 
Go enjoy other content. 

My POV:
I have not maxed out my valor again this week. The reset is today and I have managed a wooping 720 valor or so. I play a lot, but I absolutely hate the daily system. They feel like chores to me, and so my whole head rebels and most of the time I really just don't want to do them.

I forced myself (no Blizz did not force me) to revered with the Klaxxi because I had nowhere!!! to spend my valor points. I hated every quest I did.

Now I am at the point where I don't feel like getting a lot more valor is currently worth much to me since I would have to force myself to do another rep to revered, and then another to get to something that I can use for my character. This means that I do not feel a drive to get valor points, and I feel even less drive to get the reps, since one is locked behind another rep.

So in all sense I do not feel a drive to do a massive part of the game. I do a dungeon to make sure I have maxed out my valor by the time the upgrade item system comes in, but that's about it.

What do I do in the game?

Well, last weekend I spent 3 hours with some guildies to get the dungeon achievements. A nice challenge and a lot of fun. Also got the guild some money.

Chores

I've also made a list of what I need to level all the cooking ways. There is a quest you get once you max it out and I'm curious for that. Plus I can skin with my hunter so I've been shooting crocs for their raw crocolisk belly.

I raid with my raid group and we're enjoying ourselves with that.

And I try to do LFR, but only on reset day since it sucks to try and get a proper group on other days. (unless my guild goes with a group).

Is this as rewarding as what I would prefer to do in the game? No. This is not the game I would prefere to play. I would prefer to actually run dungeons, because I like them, but I don't feel like that's very useful, plus since nobody has a drive to run them, it's not a lot of fun to actually do them at the moment.

I would prefer to work on my character's progression during the week and feel like I'm getting better for my raid. But since the only way I can do that in the game is in a way I really dislike, I just don't do it. I dislike that I am less good than I could be if only I could like the dailies. But I just don't like that part of the game, and it is the ONLY part of progression.

And here we come to the heart of the problem. The only SOLO path of progression is doing dailies. You can run dungeons till you drop, but it doesn't matter. Without doing the dailies you have nowhere to spend your valor.

You can level all your professions, do scenarios, do PVP, LFR, whatever you want to do. But the only way to progress your character and spend those valor points is through daily chores.

On top of that the daily chores reward you with valor better than all the other stuff does. So clearly the best way to progress solo through the game is to do chores. Which is very very discouraging to people.

And this is not going to improve much with the 5.1 patch either, since it's not worth upgrading your gear much if you didn't manage to get it in the first place.

Now, I'm lucky to have some raid gear, but people who do not raid...well, again, what do you upgrade? Your dungeon gear? Make me laugh, yeah?

And I agree with the poster from this post:
If blizzard is not going to fix this fast, they will lose a lot more people all over. Not because it is to hard this time around, no this time they will lose the casuals. Because those casuals feel like they cannot get anywhere with their game without spending some hardcore amount of time in the stupid dailies.

To sum up:

• There should be some other way to spend those valor points (and justice points)
• There should be a way to have people who cannot log in every day feel equally rewarded for their play time as the people who do log in every day
• My time in game without doing dailies should feel as appreciated by Blizzard as someone else's time in game who does do dailies
• If I love scenarios I should not feel discouraged to do them because the reward is useless without doing something else in the game that I do not love so much
• If I need something from such and such faction number 2, I should not have to go through faction number 1 as well to get to number 2.
• We need more not wiggly snakes in the game (oh wait, that is a personal peeve that almost every mount you can get in the game is a silly wiggling snake mount now)

LFR Loot System

This is apparently also Loot

Now this is a different discussion all together. It weighs in on the valor and daily points since it is one of the few ways that you could progress solo...if not for the ways the new loot system has decreased your chances of getting loot.

But statistically your chance is much higher to get loot! Blizzard says....

Ok, lets compare.

Raid:
2 cloth healer, 2 leather healers, 1 mail healer, 1 plate healer

1 plate tank, 1 leather tank

5 cloth dps - 2 mages, 2 warlock, 1 priest
6 leather dps - 1 boomkin, 1 monk, 2 druids, 2 rogues
3 mail dps - 1 hunter, 1 enhance shammie, 1 ele shammie
3 plate dps - 2 DKs, 1 pallies

Old System:

Boss dies. The system pops up with 3 items from a random loot table.
Mail Int Chest Piece
Plate Str Boots (no tank stats)
Spirit 1handed mace

Mail Int Chest Piece - 2 people who would want it the ele and the resto shammie. Chance you get it? 50%

Plate Str Boots - 3 people who would want it, and possibly an asshole tank who needs on it. Chance you get it? 25%

Spirit 1H Mace - 7 people who would want it (shadowpriest). Chance you get it? 14.3%

ew System: (as explained by Blizzard)

Boss dies.


- Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
- For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss's loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
- Notice that you aren't rolling Need or Greed. You don't have an option to Pass. The game just says "Take this."
- You can't trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don't want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.


In a blue post:

First, other players will not affect your loot in any way. Another player winning will not cause you to lose. Another player winning a mace will not mean that she took your mace. If there are many rogues in the raid, your chance of winning a rogue item is not diminished. We may decide that each player has an X% chance to get loot, or we may decide that X number of players get loot, and then randomly determine who those lucky players are.

Second, the item you win will be "useful" in the sense that it's potentially usable by your current spec. This does not mean that warriors will get leather because warriors can equip leather (at a huge stat loss). It also does not mean that the game will always give you an item you want or an upgrade for the items you have. It just looks and says "You are a Holy priest, so here is a random item chosen from the Holy priest-appropriate items that this boss can drop."


What in the end is my chance to get loot? I have not been able to find out what my chances are, but it certainly feels lower than the 14% I had before.

Problem 1.

I think the first big problem here is that other players will not affect your loot in any ways.

Lets say in the old situation my guild group did what we did last weekend. We jumped in with  a couple of  people who are outgearing most of the LFR gear already.

We had 2 leather healers, 2 plate tanks, 1 mage, 1 shadowpriest.

For the loot situation I described above this means that for example the mace could have 3 less rollers on it. Lets say that from the people who were not in our group there is another healer that already has a weapon. All of a sudden your chance is not 14% for the mace, but your chance has just gone up to 33%.

And your chances will get higher as more people are getting geared.

With the new system your chance is static and will not change, because it is unaffected by other players.

Problem 2.

The loot system decides what I need. I personally have won 5 items in LFR/Sha so far. Woohoo!

1 pair of pvp gloves (which I am using since it's better than I had, and hey the bonus on the roll is nice)
1 neck (I had better, so it got sold)
1 cloaks (I had betetr so it was sold)
1 offhand (which I would've gotten apparently if I had not done that boss already)
1 chest piece (which I am using, since it was an upgrade).

It really, really feels as if those items that I didn't need went wasted, and it would've been so nice if they could have gone to someone who did need them.

Also, I cannot see how many items are handed out, and how many loot bags. There should be some sort of window that shows me who won items.

I am not getting any offspec gear this way. I would love to actually get some gear for my windwalker, but instead Blizzard assigns int cloaks without spirit to me. (I refuse items without spirit as a healer, but that is a different discussion). The mage in the group could've used that item sooo much better.

When you get useless gear like that it feels like a carrot is being dangled in front of you. Frustrating.

Problem 3. 

Elder Charms. I worked my butt off to get these elder charms. I did your stupid dailies, I went through the motions of doing what I should be doing. And what do I get? Another bag of gold.

It really feels as if the work I did for the charms should be rewarded. Maybe not directly with loot, but then at least with a bigger bag of gold.

Hey, you know Blizz, maybe that gold you get when you change the small charms to the big charms could be handed out to make the gold bags from elder charms extra big!

I want something to show for my effort.

Problem 4.

I think this is already on the fix list (or at least I would hope so).

If you do LFR again, to help out guildies with a faster queue time for example. Or to see that specific effect from such and such boss again. You get taunted with the loot you would've gotten if only you hadn't been so dumb to already be locked.

This is just plain cruel and is really demotivating to do LFR more than once.

To sum up:

• It feels like loot is wasted
• The precious few times you do win, you often get something you do not want because the choice is taken out of your hands. 
• Your chances do not increase as people gear up
• The effort that was put in acquiring Elder charms should feel more appreciated and rewarded higher. 
• Show people what loot did drop from a boss. Seeing that loot has dropped (even if not for them) might make the feeling of accomplishment higher
• Do not show what you would've gotten if you had not been locked

PS: You get some really odd pictures if you google for loot o_O

This Blizz poster needs a slap in the face.

Daily Quests and the Grind
Is the only way to get the Elder Charm Coins is by doing dailys by getting 90 of the good coins and turning them into 3 elder...? that sort of forces u into dailys if so.. because u know people want that extra chance in Raid to get the gear so your know there going do dailys to get a silly coin that doesnt even help one bit gg..

"Gear drops in raids like it always has."
"I like gear like I always have."
"But I want bonus chances at that gear."
"I have to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear?!"
"I don't want to do something to earn bonus chances at that gear!"
"That thing I don't want to do that would earn me bonus chances at that gear, doesn't earn me bonus chances at that gear!"

Let me know if that's an accurate summary, as well as what you're talking about. o.O

No, this blue poster is completely and utterly wrong. The problem here is not that you have to do 'something' for the charms. The problem here is that you cannot do a variety of things.

If you do not like dailies, you have 2 choices; 1) Be annoyed with the game each time you do them anyways because it is too good to pass them up. 2) Accept that you're not getting this extra chance at loot.

People who are somewhat serious with their raiding will pick number 1.

What Blizzard needs to realize is that this sort of stuff burns people out. They come to dislike the game a little bit more every time they 'have to' do their dailies.

But what I understand least is why Blizzard is not offering options to get these charms. Why not offer them up for Justice Points for example? Not like we can do anything else with those points at the moment anyways.

Why not allow people to gain lesser charms by pvping? Or get a lesser charm through Scenarios? I love those scenarios, but the rewards are somewhat meager at the moment. And since I only have limited time to spend in the game I don't get to do scenarios nearly as much as I would prefer. Instead I spend time doing stuff I don't enjoy much. (as little time as possible mind you)

Why not allow people the way they prefer most to prepare for the game, and have the most fun while getting ready for raid?

Yes, doing something for your reward is good. Having to do some specific thing you don't particularly enjoy, but there is no other way, is bad.

Sometimes I seem to be the last to find out...

Ok, so I have my day off today and I was working diligently on my dailies, since you sort of have to in the beginning to get some gear...and well, I do want the mounts.

And I found this page on wowhead: The Tillers

I had no idea that you can bring everybody a food dish each day o_O

But hey, for all of you who didn't know either, bookmark the page and go there when you want to know who likes which gift best, and who wants which dish.

Also, since I started the monk I haven't maxed out my fishing yet. To be honest I don't like fishing all that much, and well...yeah.

But when I was doing Angler's dailies I found out that even at very low fishing level you can already fish in the pools in Pandaria. So don't despair! If you need fishies for the cloud serpent dailies, they come from pools and you can fish them! :)

Lastly, I had no idea, but apparently there are eggs scattered around the cloud serpent island. Somewhat like the Netherwing eggs.

If you find one, bring it back and you get rep.

Of course there were none to be seen when I went over to the island, but just saying....